Alternative Energy Forums

Hi guys and gals. I think this is a great project... most of the input seems to assume peddle power is the only way to produce human energy! if this is the case we are already doomed.

Listing formulas for energy production is nice however working smarter instead of harder is my suggestion. In other words a man can have a known estimated output of energy. What you do with that energy and how you chose to achieve it can not be a fixed sum. M-FTW The sky is the limit. I challenge this be the question answered.

Dennisbmennis

Hello to all.

I'm aware of the pros and cons of this issue, having read quite a bit about it all over the net over the last several years.

Let me say that kleinicus is seeing something, but hasn't given it the kind of thought and research that the idea needs, therefore the question. Good work, you have done an incredible job, stepping forward with something that seems possible, even if practicality is another matter.

Okay, here's my take on it. Yes, human power has to be "waste" power to make it an efficiency, because of the "costs" associated with obtaining it. Humans are forced to waste energy because we need exercise to maintain our health. So, that times some 6 billion people, adds up to quite a few megawatts. Meaning that the energy is already there! So the real problem is how to harness it.

The key to harnessing this incredible source of energy, I believe, is storage. Humans cannot be expected to engage in energy production like machines, nor is waste energy available for capture at all times. But, if this energy could be stored, transported and used where needed, then you have the possibility of getting some utility from it.

Using human power to generate electricity is fraught with problems as we have seen. So I suggest that we collect and store human energy by mechanical means.
Let's say we take a very strong spring, and we couple that to a hydraulic jack. Then when human power is applied, a large amount of energy can be stored in the spring. Like using a car jack to -- instead of lifting a two ton car for example -- compress a heavy duty spring. The spring could be locked and transported to where it's energy could then be released to do work.

Compression of these springs could be done at any persons leisure, thus filling any needs for exercise, while usable power would be captured through the increase in leverage hydraulics provides. Thus a spring could be compressed to 10 or 20 kilowatts quite easily. Providing these kilowatts to be used at any rate desired as needed.

So basically that is the way I'm thinking today, spring powered tools, cars, helicopters, planes etc., which would benefit people where other forms of power are too costly or otherwise unavailable.

Obwon

Until we develop fusion power which should be in the next 25 years solar and wind energy are the least polluting of our commercial energy conversions, though they are intermittent. We have huge numbers of unemployed people who might welcome the chance to generate electricity to earn some money. Archimedes stated that if he had a lever long enough he could move the world. The Romans used large treadmills to lift heavy blocks of stone for their construction like cranes.

Pushing on a wind turbine blade would not be very comfortable in an 8 hour shift however.

Xerxes

Mr Klein,

It seems everyone is more interested in destroying this concept than finding ways to support it. That's kind of sad really that people can be so SURE something is NOT possible with so little effort.

You suggest many pedal generators connected to turn ONE massive shaft turbine. It seems everyone neglected that on a massive scale that there would be MAXIMUM RPM and MINIMUM Resistance. Take that into account then I think it may be very possible given the right mechanics set up.

(Jan 5 2010 07:16 AM)smurfd912 Wrote:  Mr Klein,

It seems everyone is more interested in destroying this concept than finding ways to support it. That's kind of sad really that people can be so SURE something is NOT possible with so little effort.

You suggest many pedal generators connected to turn ONE massive shaft turbine. It seems everyone neglected that on a massive scale that there would be MAXIMUM RPM and MINIMUM Resistance. Take that into account then I think it may be very possible given the right mechanics set up.

I Agree! Approaching 7 billion humans, this idea has great potential and could put a lot of people to work while exercising them. I would like to see a university sponsored project to create such a generator using several thousand humans turning a large turbine to actually test how much energy can be produced. Anyone at MIT interested...

(Oct 15 2009 08:30 AM)Guest Wrote:  Hello.

I recently had an idea. I wanted to find out if anyone has information about large-scale human-based power.

I got the idea from watching a movie that had some shots of power-generating windmills, lots of them. If kinetic energy from wind can be converted into electricity in your home, why can't the combined power of thousands of people be used in the same way?

I had the notion that a person operating a bicycle would not be enough. But imagine an entire legion of people, all pedaling bicycles attached to generators at the same time for hours at a time. That's an energy AND unemployment solution. It seems like that would be pretty economical, but I wanted to find out what someone else thinks. It occurred to me that someone else surely must have thought of this by now and it wasn't done because it couldn't be. But, you never know unless you ask.

kleinicus

Great idea! It's time to try it!

(Oct 15 2009 08:32 AM)Guest Wrote:  I just registered and would like to "contribute" to this forum. The idea isn't stupid, just unfeasible. We are weak machines. Thinking "outside the box" like this is just what we need.

TMoney said 2 silly things.
Firstly, don't think of the prison population as an untapped resource, just the opposite. The potential for injury would cause for costs 100 times more than the energy production. A worn knee in 2002 cost me $13,000, thats a lot of wattage, even in the most expensive areas.

Prisoners cannot be forced to work under the Constitution. If we make prisons profitable, or even self sufficient, we give the govt incentive to "enslave" as many people as possible. Do you want a tax audit every year? How about mandatory minimum sentences for traffic violations? We need imprisoning our citizens to be expensive to give society incentive to rehabilitate (potential) wrongdoers rather than simply punish them and their families again and again. Americans are all about vindication, but they want their vengeance to be severe, quick and cheap. It's supposed to be 50/50 punishment/rehab. Not a popular concept, but it's a human nature thing. Nobody would be for capital punishment if they thought we could get a few "kill"-a watts out of a convict rather than putting a few into him.

Secondly, it's obvious that human powered generators couldn't produce enough equity to pay for the food required, let alone a small wage. If this were feasible we'd use the 60,000 wild mustangs that the Dept of Interior is wondering what to do with. Horses are (12x) stronger, cheaper to feed and don't sue the boss.

The energy companies now make millions to pay thousands of employees. With human-power they would make thousands to pay millions of employees.

Chuck, the welfare recipients would get hurt and sue the govt for millions, each. Most are on welfare for a reason.

bhags makes very good points, IMO.

Cost is typically measured using our monetary system which is extremely flawed, and creates unnecessary obstacles in many instances. This is a clean energy option. What is the cost of our current energy practices? The cost is the extinction of our species and our planet! Human ingenuity is amazing! I'm sure the first human generated plants would be crude, but by the 4th and 5th generation we'd probably have something to be proud of. Something that would keep people employed and in shape while producing clean energy. Think positive! Instead of belittling human energy producers, we’d put them on up on a pedestal. There are millions of humans with nothing right now. Why not give them something?