Alternative Energy Forums

I have this idea for a motor, well, actually it's a generator, but I like calling it a motor. So anyways. The problem with motors is that you have to EXPEND energy in order for them to CREATE energy. Well, I was thinking that if you had some type of contraption that put out more energy than it used to run, then it could use the energy that it created to run itself and you would have energy left over.

I know, I know. Most of you have heard of this and are probably tired of hearing off the wall ideas for how to do it. And I'll admit, my idea will PROBABLY not work, but I don't know. Cause I am not a scientist. Just a somewhat educated individual who had a weird idea one day.

I was thinking about perpetual motion motors one day and was frustrated because none has been developed, and I couldn't think of how to do it for the life of me, when I got to thinking about the things that cause an object to stop.

This is how a viewed it...

Imagine you have an upright shaft. In the middle of this shaft, or on the top of it, is an arm stretching straight across the shaft on two sides. On the ends of these arms are permanent magnets. Well, you all probably know that if you put a coil around these arms to where if you spun the shaft the arms would carry the magnets in a circle within the coils, electricity will be created. The problem is that the shaft eventually stops turning.

Between the friction of the arms rotating around the shaft, the drag of air on the arms and the magnets, and the pull of gravity on the magnets, it just doesn't stand a chance at perpetual motion.

So we have to overcome those three factors, then, as far as I know, , it will keep going for ever.

The way to solve the problem of friction is simple, a frictionless ball bearing. It may not take away 100% of the friction there, but it will be so little that the energy this thing will make will be able to keep its rotation speed steady with just a few tweaks of power every now and then.

The way to solve the air drag problem is simple too, just put it in a vacuumed environment, like a sealed box.

Then lastly, the way to solve the problem of gravity is to place a permanent magnet underneath the "box" that will provide enough "push" on the magnets above it so the effects of gravity are nullified.

There would of course be several different specifics needed to be worked out, but this idea has been harassing my brain for some time now, and I need to be told that it is either a good idea, or that something is wrong with it and it won't work.

So what do y'all think?

Mdaughdrill

I will say this...you are headed down the right track with magnetism. However you really have no idea what you are talking about. Or at least I don't. Spin the shaft, that is all that is needed. Perpetual motion??? Yes it can be done. Magnetelectricism. Look that one up. Won't find it... it's new and it's mine.

magmogen

@Mdaughdrill

You have just described how any conventional permanent-magnet, alternating current generator works. Move a coil of wire relative to a magnetic field and a voltage is generated between the terminals of the coil of wire. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternator).

Gravity itself does not cause the rotor to slow down, other than causing a load (the weight of the rotor), resulting in a frictional torque, on whatever bearing or bushing you've used to support it.

However, you left out in your discussion a key item that causes the rotor slow once you start spinning it: magnetic drag that induces the electric current. As you put a bigger and bigger load between the terminals of the stator windings, there will be a bigger and bigger magnetic load on the rotor (the shaft with the magnets on it). This will make it harder to turn and therefore will slow down faster and faster, once you start using the power "generated" by your "motor"

(FYI, a motor is the exact and precise opposite of a generator...calling a generator a motor because you like it better is the same as calling a banana an apple because you prefer that term).

PS The problem of friction is not "simple" - a "frictionless ball bearing" is the holy grail of Mechanical Engineering. It would not wear out, heat up or rob power from the system it's installed in. Magnetic bearings (sigpei mentions these above - levitating a rotating shaft via a magnetic field) is the closest thing available at the moment, and they are still generally cost-prohibitive for most operations.

@ sigpei - magnets lose their magnetism at the Curie point (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curie_point) of the material, 1414F for pure iron.

Beltonius

The frictionless bearing is too small to serve as a prime mover for a motor.

JaredIsKing

Plenty of nonsense here, ... or what ... ?

Check out thoroughly the 2nd law of thermodynamics, on wiki, or wherever, via Google, to find out why a perpetual motion machine is not possible not just because that pesky friction is tricky to do away with, and those annoying eddy currents, get in the way, but because such a device would contravene the said 2nd law; and so is absolutely impossible under any circumstances.

Stop straining your brain trying to figure out how to make a perpetual motion machine - you can not - it's rigorously scientifically impossible - so you'll take forever; better if you spend a less amount of time learning/studying physics that will convince you of this.

Dennis Revell
Time Saver