Alternative Energy Forums

Dear All,

How does the cost of biofuel compare to diesel? I am from India. I am seeking more information about biodiesel processing and biofuel plants. Your comments are much appreciated.

Shiva

Biofuel is less expensive than diesel fuel, which is part of its appeal. In America biofuel tends to be made from corn. Of course it supports the farmers and is renewable too.

CleanAir

Ideally it should be cheaper but it isn’t always. I run 100% biodiesel as much as possible and right now it is pretty expensive. You can see the up to date price in Madison, WI here.

http://pfbf.typepad.com/

bio300td

Why don`t run your car with plant oil? It should be cheaper!

Messflux

Hello Shiva
That's a terribly ominous name for a green minded person. Online gamer maybe, but lover of the Earth?

I'm not an expert, however I do know a FEW things about this topic. I came from an agricultural background and I have a brother in the midwest who grows corn and soybeans. I've also researched hemp and other related topics over the last 20 years, albeit casually.

Previous poster CleanAir appears to be living in a utopian dreamworld and maybe gets too much Fox News and conservative talk radio. Using corn for fuel is having a negative effect on farmers and ranchers due to skyrocketing feed costs and operating costs. No offense CleanAir, but it ain't working. Soy and corn are just too precious for this application.

Messflux gets it!

We Americans are cannabis-phobic elitists, so we burn our food (and the livestock feed) to make "elite-fuel" that costs more. Hemp is the answer to the biofuel issue, but the US government and the ignorant conservatives cannot get past the fact that hemp and cannabis are related. Wild hemp is actually Chinese Hemp and grows on 6 of 7 continents, is surprisingly adaptable to harsh climates and conditions, and contains almost NO psychoactive ingredients. It's hardy, easy to grow, uses less water per pound than corn or soy, and our hurting farmers could grow it on their existing poor ground using their CURRENT equipment.

The Department of Agriculture pays thousands farmers millions of dollars to NOT grow crops on millions of acres in the infamous CRP program. This ground could be used on alternating seasons to provide the soil benefits sought by the CRP program and still yield a harvest every 2 years. The CRP program is also designed to stabilize prices by keeping the grain market a bit hungry as well, although bureaucrats may not admit this. Cannabis farming on this same ground regenerates the soil and would not compete with the grain markets, thereby preserving the intent of the program.

Biofuels are a temporary solution in a best case scenario anyway because they still contribute to global warming. The key to it all is renewable energy innovation that is supported by government, not squelched by corporate-bought politicians hired keep the gravy train rolling.

Does India have a hemp industry? If not, they need one as one of the fastest growing industrial nations with well over a billion inhabitants to feed and fuel.

Some facts and some opinion, all of it free!

American Idealist

With so many people still in hungry stage, we can not use eatable food to produce biofuels. Also use arable land to grown energy crop for biofuel is inappropriate.

Bonnie

In my opinion, we should make our best efforts to promote solar energy products. For that, we need the support from government and professional technology.

dfdsolar

It seems to me that biofuel is a win win situation. It is cheaper to produce, in the long run once the system is in place, compared to the now existent petroleum industry. It is first it is renewable, it emits no disulphide, emits 80-100% less CO2, emits 75% less particulates than traditional diesel, easier to transport since it's nontoxic and can be used in traditional diesel engines so it can directly replace exiting diesel fuel.

Alex

Few questions and some info on biofuel -

1 - There are other sources for biofuel; corn was obviously a bad mistake. But in a politicians world, corn is where the moneys at! – I say that’s not good enough for the rest of us. Then we have algae, switch grass, wood chips and the best alternative - “HEMP”. So the first question would be, when comparing amount of waste (Sulfur, CO2, etc) how much waste is produced by each? Which one of these produces the least amount of waste?

2 - It takes energy to make energy – the downside with corn is it took too much energy to make. Corn is naturally a hard crop to grow. Hemp on the other hand grows everywhere. It is drought-tolerant and a nitrogen-fixing "weed" that improves soil integrity. Meaning, more farm land in the future and possibly an end to famine. So we know In addition to its potential to solve our energy crisis, it would also impact: soil degradation, deforestation and desertification. But everything comes at a cost… when comparing the alternatives for biofuels, what are the production / energy ratios? You can’t possibly consider using a fuel which takes more energy to make than it produces?

I have read a column in “The Economist” stating that wood chips “production / energy ratio” is higher than that of corn or sugar cane. We need to know the production / energy ratio for HEMP folks. Look for it. Suggest it be studied. Spread the word. Because something is screaming to me… it is yelling, “HEMP grows like a WEED! Wouldn’t Hemp Yield a higher production / energy ratio?!”

Truth be told... I’m just not sure if there is a way to actually measure the amount of energy hemp offers. - “Cannabis Hemp is the only known plant that can be grown from the Equator to the Arctic Circle, and to the Antarctic Circle; from the mountains to the valleys, from the oceans to the plains, including arid lands and everywhere in between (meaning hemp does not require land currently used for food). Cannabis Hemp is the healthiest plant for the ground out of the 300,000 known species, and the millions and millions of subspecies of plants on Earth, because it has a root system that grows 10 to 12 inches in 30 days compared to one inch for rye, barley grass, etc. The roots penetrate up to 6 to 10 feet deep, pulverizing the soil and making it arable. After harvest it leaves a root system that is mulched into the ground, revitalizing the land and making it live once again. It is the KING KONG of the King Kongs of all plant life.” - http://www.hemp4fuel.com/page.php?3

With that said and Hemp’s ability to prevent soil degradation, deforestation and desertification, I don’t think the Production / energy ratio could be compared… I think it would be like comparing “Morton salt company” to the OCEAN. Yes both can produce salt that taste very similar to each other, but the salt from the sea is much healthier, and the ocean supplies so much more than just salt. To simply put it, Algae, Corn, wood chips, and sugar cane simply cannot compare to hemp.

For those in the USA - Send a letter to your Representative in the U.S. House and Senate urging him or her to consider introducing a bill, or an amendment to a bill, similar to H.R. 1009, the Industrial Hemp Farming Act of 2007. - just follow the link
http://www.votehemp.com/write_congress.html

Google - “hemp revolution” a cool documentary, very informative
Google - “Totally Baked” a movie like documentary, very funny, informative and entertaining.
Both can be found to view online for free.

notrandom

Due note; Hemp is not Marijuana. America was built on hemp. The first cars were run on hemp gasoline. From what I read, it can be refined using our current infrastructure with only a few alterations and could take us off imported oil well within TWO YEARS. We all know the reasons it has been illegal all these years, right? Several supporting social factions include but are not limited to: timber owners; cotton farmers; churches; law enforcement; prison system; local state and federal governments; car manufacturers and “Big oil”. And those are just a few reasons why it is still illegal to grow this non-medicinal version of the marijuana plant. Banning cannabis hemp is the same thing as making the California poppy illegal.

Hey, i work for a company called Oz Future Fuels - we provide bio diesel/bio fuels in Australia.

We make our bio diesel from waste/used oils from the mines and also from cooking oil from Fast food shops like McDonalds etc.

We sell our bio-diesel for cheaper than normal diesel - plus it is more environmentally friendly.

to find out more check us out here:

http://www.ozfuturefuels.com/

(Oct 15 2009 06:09 AM)Guest Wrote:  Dear All,

How does the cost of biofuel compare to diesel? I am from India. I am seeking more information about biodiesel processing and biofuel plants. Your comments are much appreciated.

Shiva

HI Shiva,
I am also interested in information about setting up a small biofuel plant, using no cash crops, Please help me with information if any one is having in setting up a biofuel processing plant
Regards
vamsi

Well, we should look at not only the price but also the possible repercussions to the environment. For one, while diesel fuel is proven to emit greenhouse gases, biofuels do so to but in a lesser degree. 2ndly, biofuel is obtained from many sources, from corn, from sugar cane and others. This is slightly scary as searching for these resources will often lead to the destruction of habitat of various species of plants and animals, in the process, messing up the entire ecosysttem of the said area. At any rate, solar, wind and hydro energy prove tobe the cleanest, most efficient forms of energy today.